The Social Security Forum

VOCATIONAL TOPICS: What to Do when the VE Testifies Based on “Their Experience”

March 29, 2023

Another VE-ism we all no doubt hear many times is they know it from “their experience.” The problem with that statement is that it is ipse dexit. It is also unverified and likely unverifiable.

A female lawyer asking questions of a man providing testimony

Although the VE Handbook says the VE should bring their sources and be prepared to discuss them, they don’t and the ALJs don’t want them to. The VE’s memory is not more reliable than yours. Do you remember the details of cases you tried 5 years ago? And many VEs will misrepresent casual observations as a “job survey.”

So how do you deal with this statement? You want to press the VE about what that experience is. Where, when, how? I once got a VE to admit that his testimony about “his experience” that a laundry worker job would accommodate a sit/stand option was based on the total of the 10 seconds it took him to walk past the laundry room as he left his hotel that morning.

You want to demonstrate the data is unreliable – few VEs know their statistics. You also want to demonstrate memory is fallible (since they won’t produce the data). Here are some questions to ask:

  • With an incidence of [number of jobs supposedly in existence], how large does a sample need to be mathematically to yield a confidence interval of 95%? (Not only can you find the formula on Wikipedia, you can find several web sites that will calculate it for you!)
  • How many jobs did you personally study in forming your conclusion? That’s not enough to yield a valid prediction of the job’s requirements, is it?
  • When and where did you study this occupation? No, I mean the actual dates, company/addresses, and the name of the supervisor you dealt with.
  • What questions did you ask? Of whom?
  • What observations of job characteristics did you record?
  • Did you make a written record of the answers? Of your observations? How? Where is this record?
  • Why did you study this occupation? Who paid you?
  • How many occupations have you studied in your career? In the last 15 years?
  • Are you referring to your records during your testimony?
  • How do you make sure you are not confusing the details of one job with another?
  • How many of your job studies have been reviewed and found accurate by another expert?